Don't get mad, get even

[Someone with a better idea]

Anthony Atkielski, AKA MXSMANIC, is a troll and a vandal. He has driven many
regular posters from these newsgroups.

Many argue that he has a 'right' to post his off-topic drivel, and those who
don't like it should simply ignore it.

People have tried to politely ask him to cut it out.

He has consistantly refused.

It's like going to the beach where a large group of people next to you are
playing their music too loud. They claim it's their 'right', and there's nothing
you can do about it except leave.

I say "Fight Back"

Go to Anthony's web site www.atkielski.com and book a tour or english lesson.

He will never be able to trust another booking he gets through his website,
unless he confirms the reservation and/or asks for a deposit.

This change, alone, will drive away at least a few potential 'real life' clients.

We have done to his website what he has done to our newsgroup. Made it worthless.

[Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)]

On Mar 2, 4:04 pm, Someone with a better idea <not-

Post by Someone with a better idea
Anthony Atkielski, AKA MXSMANIC, is a troll and a vandal. He has driven many
regular posters from these newsgroups.
Many argue that he has a 'right' to post his off-topic drivel, and those who
don't like it should simply ignore it.
People have tried to politely ask him to cut it out.
He has consistantly refused.
It's like going to the beach where a large group of people next to you are
playing their music too loud. They claim it's their 'right', and there's nothing
you can do about it except leave.
I say "Fight Back"
Go to Anthony's web sitewww.atkielski.comand book a tour or english lesson.
He will never be able to trust another booking he gets through his website,
unless he confirms the reservation and/or asks for a deposit.
This change, alone, will drive away at least a few potential 'real life' clients.
We have done to his website what he has done to our newsgroup. Made it worthless.

Are you sure it's him?
MX has pissed a lot of ppl off over at alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim
too. A long established and up to a few months ago a very respectable
group used mainly by simmers but huge contributors from PPL's,
instructors, Airbus pilot, Microsoft Developers to mention a few.

Ibby

[CRaSH]

Post by Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)
Are you sure it's him?
MX has pissed a lot of ppl off over at alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim
too. A long established and up to a few months ago a very respectable
group used mainly by simmers but huge contributors from PPL's,
instructors, Airbus pilot, Microsoft Developers to mention a few.

It's him! Name ANYPLACE he's been that he hasn't pissed off and pissed
on.............

[Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)]

Post by CRaSH

Post by Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)
Are you sure it's him?
MX has pissed a lot of ppl off over at alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim
too. A long established and up to a few months ago a very respectable
group used mainly by simmers but huge contributors from PPL's,
instructors, Airbus pilot, Microsoft Developers to mention a few.

It's him! Name ANYPLACE he's been that he hasn't pissed off and pissed
on.............

I understand the Moniker(sp) is him but is the website?

Ibby

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Post by Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)
Are you sure it's him?

Yes, Anthony=MX. A little time at the domain ownership data pretty much
firmed up the identification a while back.

[Sammy]

Please do not act on this idea.

Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.

As angry as I am, I do not condone anyone doing Mx any kind of harm. I
want that very clearly understood.

Lets keep this little war verbal shall we. There's enough crap in this
world without adding to it. By the way in case there's any questions
all posts by me on this subject have been under my own name and email
address.

[Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)]

Post by Sammy
Please do not act on this idea.
Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.
As angry as I am, I do not condone anyone doing Mx any kind of harm. I
want that very clearly understood.
Lets keep this little war verbal shall we. There's enough crap in this
world without adding to it. By the way in case there's any questions
all posts by me on this subject have been under my own name and email
address.

Your probably right Sammy. Any action against his website can be
traced easily to its inception by the power of Google Groups ;-(

Ibby

[TxSrv]

Not only is such action immoral but it's probably
legally actionable in a much more tangible way than
a handful of insults.

I agree that such an action is bit extreme, but MX would
have to hire both a French and U. S. attorney out of his
$647/month he says he makes. Then there's the issue of how
much of that income has been damaged, as only part of it is
his business. No chance of an attorney taking this case on
contingency. Especially after a consult with him, showing
the att'y what pain and suffering is all about.

F--

[Peter Dohm]

Post by Sammy
Please do not act on this idea.
Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.
As angry as I am, I do not condone anyone doing Mx any kind of harm. I
want that very clearly understood.
Lets keep this little war verbal shall we. There's enough crap in this
world without adding to it. By the way in case there's any questions
all posts by me on this subject have been under my own name and email
address.

This seems like a good place to restate a suggestion that I, and others,
have made a couple of times since this controversy started.

Simply add an identifier to the Subject header, when [you] feel the need to
rebut one of Anthony's statements.

I believe that I suggested XXX or xxx, because it is very easy to type and
there is no reason for such a combination of letters to appear in a Subject
header. Several others have suggested MX or MXS, which are a little harder
to type and unlikely, though not impossible, to appear in a normal header.
The identifier ZZZ is used in a vaguely similar manner on another group, and
could easily be used in this case without any conflict.

If those who feel the urge to debate will adopt any of these, and I
recommend XXX or ZZZ for their ease of entry, then the problem will have
been solved.

Those who wish to read everything are free to do so, those who wich to
filter will have an easy method, and new readers discovering the group can
easily understand the "code." Obviously, the identifier can easily be
omitted from any post which a contributor genuinely believes to be of
general interest.

Just my (additional) $0.02
Peter

[Jim Stewart]

Post by Peter Dohm

Post by Sammy
Please do not act on this idea.
Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.
As angry as I am, I do not condone anyone doing Mx any kind of harm. I
want that very clearly understood.
Lets keep this little war verbal shall we. There's enough crap in this
world without adding to it. By the way in case there's any questions
all posts by me on this subject have been under my own name and email
address.

This seems like a good place to restate a suggestion that I, and others,
have made a couple of times since this controversy started.
Simply add an identifier to the Subject header, when [you] feel the need to
rebut one of Anthony's statements.
I believe that I suggested XXX or xxx, because it is very easy to type and
there is no reason for such a combination of letters to appear in a Subject
header. Several others have suggested MX or MXS, which are a little harder
to type and unlikely, though not impossible, to appear in a normal header.
The identifier ZZZ is used in a vaguely similar manner on another group, and
could easily be used in this case without any conflict.

How about the identifier 7500?

[Peter Dohm]

Post by Jim Stewart

Post by Peter Dohm

Post by Sammy
Please do not act on this idea.
Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.
As angry as I am, I do not condone anyone doing Mx any kind of harm. I
want that very clearly understood.
Lets keep this little war verbal shall we. There's enough crap in this
world without adding to it. By the way in case there's any questions
all posts by me on this subject have been under my own name and email
address.

This seems like a good place to restate a suggestion that I, and others,
have made a couple of times since this controversy started.
Simply add an identifier to the Subject header, when [you] feel the need to
rebut one of Anthony's statements.
I believe that I suggested XXX or xxx, because it is very easy to type and
there is no reason for such a combination of letters to appear in a Subject
header. Several others have suggested MX or MXS, which are a little harder
to type and unlikely, though not impossible, to appear in a normal header.
The identifier ZZZ is used in a vaguely similar manner on another group, and
could easily be used in this case without any conflict.

How about the identifier 7500?

I see that I forgot to look, and didn't notice that this thread was widely
cross posted. However, since it already was, I'll leave it that way for the
moment.

This controversy has encompassed several groups where part numbers, model
numbers, monetary amounts, etc. are commonly discussed. Therefore any
number, including 666, would be inadvertently filtered--and would defeat the
purpose. Remember that any character sequence which "includes" the
identifier will be filtered.

Peter

[george]

Post by Jim Stewart
How about the identifier 7500?

ROTFL
Not far from the mark

[Jim Carter]

I find that I also agree with Sammy, but for a different reason. We all strive to raise the bar so to speak, so we need to keep MX around to determine where the bottom remains. Dropping him in a killfile eliminates his traffic so I stopped seeing his posts about a month ago.
--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"Sammy" <***@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:***@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Please do not act on this idea.

Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.

As angry as I am, I do not condone anyone doing Mx any kind of harm. I
want that very clearly understood.

Lets keep this little war verbal shall we. There's enough crap in this
world without adding to it. By the way in case there's any questions
all posts by me on this subject have been under my own name and email
address.

[Not4wood]

CROSSPOSTED WARNING

Do not act on this idea. Besides all the ramifications that may arise, look around in this thread. MX is not present here. Why, because he is laughing and lonely and we are the only ones who talk about him. He thinks any talk is good, well your wrong MX and just any talk is not good. They are not talking good about you and you are too stupid to try and change.

At this point in time MX any question you ask will not be answered. Any answered question you post will either be made fun of or just ignored anyway. Even if it is right which we all doubt, no one is taking you seriously and couldnt be bothered to pay attention to you.

If you dont go away on your own we will help you.

ATTENION ALL MEMBERS OF THE AVIATION USENET GROUPS

We have all been side tracked from any threads pertaining to aviation by a successful Troll. No matter that we have been infected by previous Trolls in the past and our experience even recognized him for what it was. We still all got caught up in his nonsense and got so carried away with it almost all sane conversations has stopped. By trying to convince him to try to change his opinion which he wasn't giving in the first place. It was all bullshit and we fell for it hook line and stinker.

I think its time we get back on track and start to use all of our experience and intelligence to ignore this Putz! He is sitting back laughing at everything he's done because he thinks he is successful.

Just ignore him, Kill file him if you want, but dont answer him and also make sure to warn anybody who either forgets or might be a newbie and doesn't know. Because all he has to do is change his nic and can do it again. Be on alert for Idiots!

Respectfully Submitted,

Mark G
Not4wood


"Jim Carter" <***@swbell.net> wrote in message news:ga4Gh.333$***@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
I find that I also agree with Sammy, but for a different reason. We all strive to raise the bar so to speak, so we need to keep MX around to determine where the bottom remains. Dropping him in a killfile eliminates his traffic so I stopped seeing his posts about a month ago.


--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"Sammy" <***@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:***@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Please do not act on this idea.

Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.

As angry as I am, I do not condone anyone doing Mx any kind of harm. I
want that very clearly understood.

Lets keep this little war verbal shall we. There's enough crap in this
world without adding to it. By the way in case there's any questions
all posts by me on this subject have been under my own name and email
address.

[Quilljar]

I killfiled the idiot weeks ago, so I have no idea what you are all talking about. Please all do the same. It is the only way.

[Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)]

Post by Quilljar
I killfiled the idiot weeks ago, so I have no idea what you are all talking about. Please all do the same. It is the only way.
--
Cheers Quilly
For four good books to read look at...http://www.quilljar.btinternet.co.uk/covers.htm
Buy three or four altogether and get economy postage.

If you killfile someone do you not see their posts within replys from
other users??

Ibby

[Peter Dohm]

Post by Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)
If you killfile someone do you not see their posts within replys from
other users??

Yes, and that's the reason for the suggestion of an identifier, XXX, in
answering posts.

That way, it is possible to eliminate the thread segments that annoy you, or
to simply mark them as read, without eliminating the entire conversation.
That would also stop the "hijacking" of conversations, which has led to the
present acrimony.

Obviously, two filters (a/k/a Message Rules) are reguired:
1 Where the "From line" contains [whomever you wish to avoid]
"Delete it" or "Mark it as read"
2 Where the "Subject line" contains "XXX"
"Delete it" or "Mark it as read"

The above is the procedure for use in Outlook Express.

Personally, I use the "Mark as read" method for two reasons:
1 There is always a small amount of unintended filtering.
2 I can go back and read the conversation after it's too late to respond.
I guess that's just my personal form of pornography. :-)

Peter

[Graeme Willox]

Hi, All.

I'm a bit of a lurker in rec.aviation.simulators. I don't read any of
the other groups.

I didn't see the original post that triggered this discussion at all,
but I have to say that the discussion about it is amazing. It also
seems to be expanding into other groups.

I just have to ask: On the grand scale of things, is it really worth
getting annoyed over? It might be annoying. (I wouldn't know because I
never saw a post from whomever Andy is.)

People seem to be getting so worked up about it. I've found over the
years that the most effective way to deal with people who stir is to
just ignore them. These people thrive on getting other people to bite
at their comments, especially the comments which threaten to get back at
them. If they're ignored, they get bored and go away.

The bonus for the everyone else is that they don't end up stressed and
worked up about it.

Just my two cents worth.

[Not4wood]

Not a problem Graeme.

If you want to you could look for a poster by the nic of MXsmanic and this
way you can get a feel for what has taken place. This has been going on for
a while like Ibby has mentioned.

It also hasn't started that fast. It has taken a slow build to the point
that this one (we hope) individual would get to people with very strange
questions and when the answer has appeared this one poster would then
question the person who answered like they were not smart enough to know
what there talking about.

Mark G
Not4wood

Post by Graeme Willox
Hi, All.
I'm a bit of a lurker in rec.aviation.simulators. I don't read any of the
other groups.
I didn't see the original post that triggered this discussion at all, but
I have to say that the discussion about it is amazing. It also seems to
be expanding into other groups.
I just have to ask: On the grand scale of things, is it really worth
getting annoyed over? It might be annoying. (I wouldn't know because I
never saw a post from whomever Andy is.)
People seem to be getting so worked up about it. I've found over the
years that the most effective way to deal with people who stir is to just
ignore them. These people thrive on getting other people to bite at their
comments, especially the comments which threaten to get back at them. If
they're ignored, they get bored and go away.
The bonus for the everyone else is that they don't end up stressed and
worked up about it.
Just my two cents worth.

[Graeme Willox]

At first I wasn't going to look for them, but I changed my mind. All of
his/her messages have expired on the newsgroup server I use. On this
server, it lists 8 messages. The first is 20th August 2006 and the last
is 28th November 2006.

Maybe the link to my server is broken.

Post by Not4wood
Not a problem Graeme.
If you want to you could look for a poster by the nic of MXsmanic and this
way you can get a feel for what has taken place. This has been going on for
a while like Ibby has mentioned.
It also hasn't started that fast. It has taken a slow build to the point
that this one (we hope) individual would get to people with very strange
questions and when the answer has appeared this one poster would then
question the person who answered like they were not smart enough to know
what there talking about.
Mark G
Not4wood

Post by Graeme Willox
Hi, All.
I'm a bit of a lurker in rec.aviation.simulators. I don't read any of the
other groups.
I didn't see the original post that triggered this discussion at all, but
I have to say that the discussion about it is amazing. It also seems to
be expanding into other groups.
I just have to ask: On the grand scale of things, is it really worth
getting annoyed over? It might be annoying. (I wouldn't know because I
never saw a post from whomever Andy is.)
People seem to be getting so worked up about it. I've found over the
years that the most effective way to deal with people who stir is to just
ignore them. These people thrive on getting other people to bite at their
comments, especially the comments which threaten to get back at them. If
they're ignored, they get bored and go away.
The bonus for the everyone else is that they don't end up stressed and
worked up about it.
Just my two cents worth.

[CRaSH]

this server, it lists 8 messages. The first is 20th August 2006 and
the last is 28th November 2006.

MXmoron (sic) has bragged about making in excess of 100,000 posts to
countless groups, including breast feeding :), and managed to piss off about
EVERYBODY - a true legend in his own psychotic mind !!!
He even invents alter ego imaginary poster buddies, and has conversations
with HIMSELF.......
Rectal Cavity summa cum laude!!

[Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)]

Post by Graeme Willox
At first I wasn't going to look for them, but I changed my mind. All of
his/her messages have expired on the newsgroup server I use. On this
server, it lists 8 messages. The first is 20th August 2006 and the last
is 28th November 2006.

Use Google Groups and you will find ALOT more!!

Ibby

[Morgans]

Post by Graeme Willox
People seem to be getting so worked up about it. I've found over the
years that the most effective way to deal with people who stir is to just
ignore them. These people thrive on getting other people to bite at their
comments, especially the comments which threaten to get back at them. If
they're ignored, they get bored and go away.
The bonus for the everyone else is that they don't end up stressed and
worked up about it.
Just my two cents worth.

Are you serious? Have you been reading the group lately, and by that, I
mean the last 3 or more months?

He may not be showing up in the sim group, because he is in the piloting and
student group. He joins every thread, and starts his own, hands out bad
advise, then insults a person's qualifications to give the advise, when he
receives it.

This one is and exception to the rule, about ignoring him. He is the rare
troll that will not leave, when ignored.

He has been the cause of many quality people in the piloting group leaving,
thus greatly degrading the value of the group.

Hell yes, it is enough to annoy a person. How would you like it, if someone
came and pissed in your living room? That is about like what he has done to
the piloting and student groups.

We will be better off when everyone, every single post by him goes
unanswered, then maybe he will leave. That will never happen, though.

[Graeme Willox]

Post by Morgans

Post by Graeme Willox
People seem to be getting so worked up about it. I've found over the
years that the most effective way to deal with people who stir is to just
ignore them. These people thrive on getting other people to bite at their
comments, especially the comments which threaten to get back at them. If
they're ignored, they get bored and go away.
The bonus for the everyone else is that they don't end up stressed and
worked up about it.
Just my two cents worth.

Are you serious? Have you been reading the group lately, and by that, I
mean the last 3 or more months?
He may not be showing up in the sim group, because he is in the piloting and
student group. He joins every thread, and starts his own, hands out bad
advise, then insults a person's qualifications to give the advise, when he
receives it.

As I mentioned, the only group I'm even subscribed to is
rec.aviation.simulators. I didn't even know it was an issue until
everyone started crossposting.

Post by Morgans
This one is and exception to the rule, about ignoring him. He is the rare
troll that will not leave, when ignored.
He has been the cause of many quality people in the piloting group leaving,
thus greatly degrading the value of the group.
Hell yes, it is enough to annoy a person. How would you like it, if someone
came and pissed in your living room? That is about like what he has done to
the piloting and student groups.
We will be better off when everyone, every single post by him goes
unanswered, then maybe he will leave. That will never happen, though.

If someone pissed in my living room, it would be a criminal act and I'd
have them charged if I knew who they were. I don't think his behaviour
is quite that bad, however if enough people complained to his ISP, they
might take action.

[notspecified]

In article <esd9cp$phj$***@news-02.connect.com.au>, ***@aapt.net.au
says...

Post by Graeme Willox
Hi, All.
I'm a bit of a lurker in rec.aviation.simulators. I don't read any of
the other groups.
I didn't see the original post that triggered this discussion at all,
but I have to say that the discussion about it is amazing. It also
seems to be expanding into other groups.
I just have to ask: On the grand scale of things, is it really worth
getting annoyed over? It might be annoying. (I wouldn't know because I
never saw a post from whomever Andy is.)
People seem to be getting so worked up about it. I've found over the
years that the most effective way to deal with people who stir is to
just ignore them. These people thrive on getting other people to bite
at their comments, especially the comments which threaten to get back at
them. If they're ignored, they get bored and go away.
The bonus for the everyone else is that they don't end up stressed and
worked up about it.
Just my two cents worth.

95% of the people here are able to ignore one person, however, there are a few
apparently ultra sensitive (or clueless to the nature of usenet) people that
find it impossible to ignore. Thanks to the clueless few that can't resist the
bait we have to put up with the occasional long meaningless thread.

[Sammy]

Post by notspecified
95% of the people here are able to ignore one person, however, there are a few
apparently ultra sensitive (or clueless to the nature of usenet) people that
find it impossible to ignore. Thanks to the clueless few that can't resist the
bait we have to put up with the occasional long meaningless thread.

I consider myself to be neither, and feel that you're adding insult to
injury here. Do you often blame the victim of abuse when it occurs?

[notspecified]

Post by Sammy

Post by notspecified
95% of the people here are able to ignore one person, however, there are a few
apparently ultra sensitive (or clueless to the nature of usenet) people that
find it impossible to ignore. Thanks to the clueless few that can't resist the
bait we have to put up with the occasional long meaningless thread.

I consider myself to be neither, and feel that you're adding insult to
injury here. Do you often blame the victim of abuse when it occurs?

No, I don't blame the victim, and I see your point also, but I have no sympathy
for people that let themselves get baited into arguments with obvious trolls
when it is so much easier and less stressfull to ignore them.

Remember, you can never win an argument with a troll, even if you were to
totally agree with him. The only way to get rid of a troll is to ignore him.
If you want trolls around then argue with them. If you don't want trolls
around then ignore them. Its your choice, simple as that.

[Sammy]

Post by notspecified
No, I don't blame the victim, and I see your point also, but I have no sympathy
for people that let themselves get baited into arguments with obvious trolls
when it is so much easier and less stressfull to ignore them.

His attack was very personal in nature and everyone has buttons that
can be pushed. If you think you're any different you're mistaken. You
can have all the sympathy or lack thereof that you like. I don't come
here to look for any kind of sympathy. I come here for discussion and
to share knowledge and ideas.

What also did not help is that even before he entered the argument
others in this group (not trolls) were backing his point of view (at
least until he pushed it to absurd extremes). He wasn't the only one
suggesting that the right of everyone else on the plane to eat peanuts
outweighed a young lady's right to air travel and that the girl should
simply don some kind of magic mask to travel. You might as well
suggest that a paraplegic just get over it and walk again, and that if
it takes extra time to help someone with a disability board a plane
they should be left behind. This is the only reason I opened up on
such a personal level. The ignorance on this topic within the group
was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I'm still thoroughly
disgusted that members of this group would feel put out if they were
asked not to eat peanuts for a few hours in order to help ensure
someone's safety.

Post by notspecified
Remember, you can never win an argument with a troll, even if you were to
totally agree with him. The only way to get rid of a troll is to ignore him.

It's not a matter of winning an argument. It's a matter of not letting
half truths and outright lies stand unchallenged and unanswered. You
never know who's going to come across an argument and believe the
troll if there's nothing to show that troll is a troll. There is a
price to freedom of speech and that price is that if someone says
something offensive or dangerous there must be others willing to stand
up and counter the argument. Otherwise dangerous people and dangerous
ideas flourish.

You may not agree with me about this and you certainly may not think I
handled the situation well but it is harsh in the extreme to blame the
victim for being angered by a troll.

Post by notspecified
If you want trolls around then argue with them. If you don't want trolls
around then ignore them. Its your choice, simple as that.

I completely disagree. I think if you want trolls to hang around, let
them feel superior, and don't show up their arguments for what they
are. They get their kicks from ego boosts and the belief that they
know better than everyone else. If you show them up for the fools they
are they don't take you on. A troll is the same as any other kind of
bully. I simply should have been calmer about how I dispatched those
stupid arguments. However the entire idea that I should just ignore
someone like Mx is dangerous.

[Roger]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 12:03:03 +1000, Graeme Willox

Post by Graeme Willox
Hi, All.
I'm a bit of a lurker in rec.aviation.simulators. I don't read any of
the other groups.
I didn't see the original post that triggered this discussion at all,
but I have to say that the discussion about it is amazing. It also
seems to be expanding into other groups.
I just have to ask: On the grand scale of things, is it really worth
getting annoyed over? It might be annoying. (I wouldn't know because I
never saw a post from whomever Andy is.)

He's anoying and some times even right. Whether by accident or not I
don't know. Certainly not worth retaliating in the manner proposed
which is probably illegal .

Post by Graeme Willox
People seem to be getting so worked up about it. I've found over the
years that the most effective way to deal with people who stir is to
just ignore them. These people thrive on getting other people to bite
at their comments, especially the comments which threaten to get back at
them. If they're ignored, they get bored and go away.

That seems to be a problem with these groups. Enough answer the
original post that the threads carry on.

Post by Graeme Willox
The bonus for the everyone else is that they don't end up stressed and
worked up about it.
Just my two cents worth.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Quilljar]

Post by Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)
If you killfile someone do you not see their posts within replys
from other users??

Yes, but you can killfile all reference to silly people and then forget
them.

[Not4wood]

I have put the Killfile in I guess the two or three places and its working
perfectly so far. I haven't seen an entry once.

Only a slight reference, but I haven't even seen any replies yet. Hopefully
if all of us do this we wont even see replies.

But, I would say at this point in time that all of us and I am including
those from all of the groups included in this big crossposting must create
the kill files necessary to blank this person out. Otherwise its pointless.

Not4wood

Post by Quilljar

Post by Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)
If you killfile someone do you not see their posts within replys
from other users??

Yes, but you can killfile all reference to silly people and then forget
them.
--
Cheers Quilly
For four good books to read look at...
http://www.quilljar.btinternet.co.uk/covers.htm
Buy three or four altogether and get economy postage.

[Jim Carter]

No - at least with Outlook Express you only see the responders. If everyone kill-filed MX then there would be no responders and nothing to have to mark as "conversation read".
--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

Post by Quilljar
I killfiled the idiot weeks ago, so I have no idea what you are all talking about. Please all do the same. It is the only way.
--
Cheers Quilly
For four good books to read look at...http://www.quilljar.btinternet.co.uk/covers.htm
Buy three or four altogether and get economy postage.

If you killfile someone do you not see their posts within replys from
other users??

Ibby

[Morgans]

OK, let's do it this way.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mxsmanic. PAY ATTENTION ! ! !

YOU are served notice. Leave this newsgroup, or face possible action by
some people disrupting your website.

The choice is yours. Leave, or face the consequences.

End Notice.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


There. He has been warned. Any choice he makes now, are his own
responsibility, and whatever actions others in this group take, are their
own choices as well.

Action against his website may be a low blow, but what he has done to these
newsgroups are a low blows, too.

If he does not take this opportunity to leave, he deserves anything he gets.
I'm sure I am not the only one that agrees with this.

[Jose]

Post by Morgans
Action against his website may be a low blow, but what he has done to these
newsgroups are a low blows, too.

He has done nothing to the newsgroups. Whatever has been done to the
newsgroups, we have done ourselves, in response. But, we don't have to
respond.

Jose

[Jay Honeck]

Post by Jose
He has done nothing to the newsgroups. Whatever has been done to the
newsgroups, we have done ourselves, in response. But, we don't have to
respond.

Agreed. This newsgroup has slipped to new lows with this thread, and
I'm ashamed of my fellow airmen.

We are better than this.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)

Agreed. This newsgroup has slipped to new lows with this thread, and I'm
ashamed of my fellow airmen.

Ms Maniac X is purposefully a contrarian ...the irritating button pusher
kind. He has a history of this posting behavior in other groups - groups who
have repeatedly SUFFERED through his antics.

Overall, an appreciation that he is hurting the groups he's posting to,
seems to be lost on the lad.

I have absolutely no problem with people reaching out and touching him,
through his website.

That said, I disagree with MANY of the reasons people put forth for not
accepting him.

So what if he's a sim pilot? He has passion for aviation, that's his ticket
into the rec.aviation newsgroups, IMHO. How he comports himself, once here,
is my issue with Ms Maniac X.

My suggestions:
1. Answer Ms Maniac X if you wish (an XXX in the subject line would be very
much appreciated).
2. Be concise and on topic with your answer - don't flame him.
3. Keep an eye out for info being presented by the lad.
4. Welcome his aviation enthusiasm, ignore his button pushing.
5. Again, DO NOT FLAME HIM. This is what brings down our r.a.newsgroups.

Again, again, again ...answer him if you must, but please DO NOT QUIBBLE
WITH HIM. Provide a brief answer to his annoying posts, and move on. This
will mitigate the damage he "willfully intends" on causing our rec.aviation
groups.

If (EVERYTHING) he posts is met with dispassionate replies, the high he
gets, by getting into spats with people, will quickly evaporate.


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

Post by Montblack
I have absolutely no problem with people reaching out and touching him,
through his website.

If you mean by emailing him, fine. No harm done. But I have a real
problem with this group purposefully trying to conspire to harm
someone's business.

It's illegal, immoral, and childish -- three traits I don't normally
associate with pilots.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)

Post by Jay Honeck
If you mean by emailing him, fine. No harm done. But I have a real
problem with this group purposefully trying to conspire to harm someone's
business.
It's illegal, immoral, and childish -- three traits I don't normally
associate with pilots.

"They jus' wanna tuawk to him."

Over the years I've been one of the more vocal opponents of people getting
"PLONKED". That said, I am not a fan of those who engage him in threads.

People: He'll (drown the thread) every time you let him climb onto your
backs! Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."

He enjoys this.

"I have absolutely no problem with people reaching out and touching him,
through his website."

This is a merging of something HE cares about (in the Real World) and
something we care about - these newsgroups. He can continue being ...him, he
can modify his behavior, or he can leave. His choice. <!!!>


Montblack
BTW... "I know you are but what am I?"

[TxSrv]

Post by Jose
He has done nothing to the newsgroups. Whatever has been
done to the newsgroups, we have done ourselves, in response.

I can't quite agree. For especially students or prospective
students, he has rather overstated the case as to the safety
of flying even basic FG singles - "tin cans." From some
posts, its sounds as though he's incompetent in MSFS.

F--

[Jose]

For especially students or prospective students, he has rather overstated the case as to the safety of flying even basic FG singles - "tin cans."

That hardly destroys a newsgroup.

Jose

[FSGenesis]

I didn't want to jump into this, and this will be my only post on it . .
.

But really, isn't it best to just move on? As low as his condescension,
pontification, and insensitivity may seem, all this talk of retaliation
and vengeance is only sinking lower, and punctuates everything that's
wrong with the world as it is.

The enlightened response is to turn the other cheek, maintain the high
ground, and move on. He only has as much power as he is given and all
this reaction is like a puppet having his strings pulled. Want to make
him powerless? Ignore him.

Justin

Post by Morgans
OK, let's do it this way.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mxsmanic. PAY ATTENTION ! ! !
YOU are served notice. Leave this newsgroup, or face possible action by
some people disrupting your website.
The choice is yours. Leave, or face the consequences.
End Notice.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There. He has been warned. Any choice he makes now, are his own
responsibility, and whatever actions others in this group take, are their
own choices as well.
Action against his website may be a low blow, but what he has done to these
newsgroups are a low blows, too.
If he does not take this opportunity to leave, he deserves anything he gets.
I'm sure I am not the only one that agrees with this.
--
Jim in NC

[Sammy]

Justin would you find it so easy to move on if he'd called your wife a
hypochondriac and a liar in need of psychiatric treatment having never
met her? I realise that in some ways I opened the door by revealing
personal details, but he's taken things way to far.

I am very strongly against leaving insults, falsehoods and dangerous
crackpot notions to stand unanswered and undefended. It lends
credibility to ideas which can do very real harm, and it shows
weakness if you don't stand up to a bully. The only way to make it
totally unworthwhile.for a troll is to make them consistently look
stupid by turning their own half baked ideas back against them and
showing them to be absurd. (These fools feed on feeling their ego has
been stroked). You can argue how well or not I've done that, and you
can certainly fault me for swearing at the fool and letting him get to
me, but simply moving on won't work. Moving on means not putting in
any effort to counter a dangerous idea.

I am also very strongly against sabotage of a business or violence
unless it's absolutely necessary to physically defend oneself. It's
totally uncalled for here. Escalating a war of words into a war of
action inevitably becomes destructive to both parties.

[FSGenesis]

HI Sammy,

While I can understand and empathize with the fact that he has pushed
some buttons obviously close to your heart, I still think ignoring him
will render him powerless.

Justin

Post by Sammy
Justin would you find it so easy to move on if he'd called your wife a
hypochondriac and a liar in need of psychiatric treatment having never
met her? I realise that in some ways I opened the door by revealing
personal details, but he's taken things way to far.
I am very strongly against leaving insults, falsehoods and dangerous
crackpot notions to stand unanswered and undefended. It lends
credibility to ideas which can do very real harm, and it shows
weakness if you don't stand up to a bully. The only way to make it
totally unworthwhile.for a troll is to make them consistently look
stupid by turning their own half baked ideas back against them and
showing them to be absurd. (These fools feed on feeling their ego has
been stroked). You can argue how well or not I've done that, and you
can certainly fault me for swearing at the fool and letting him get to
me, but simply moving on won't work. Moving on means not putting in
any effort to counter a dangerous idea.
I am also very strongly against sabotage of a business or violence
unless it's absolutely necessary to physically defend oneself. It's
totally uncalled for here. Escalating a war of words into a war of
action inevitably becomes destructive to both parties.

[Peter Dohm]

Post by Sammy
Justin would you find it so easy to move on if he'd called your wife a
hypochondriac and a liar in need of psychiatric treatment having never
met her? I realise that in some ways I opened the door by revealing
personal details, but he's taken things way to far.
I am very strongly against leaving insults, falsehoods and dangerous
crackpot notions to stand unanswered and undefended. It lends
credibility to ideas which can do very real harm, and it shows
weakness if you don't stand up to a bully. The only way to make it
totally unworthwhile.for a troll is to make them consistently look
stupid by turning their own half baked ideas back against them and
showing them to be absurd. (These fools feed on feeling their ego has
been stroked). You can argue how well or not I've done that, and you
can certainly fault me for swearing at the fool and letting him get to
me, but simply moving on won't work. Moving on means not putting in
any effort to counter a dangerous idea.

Those are all excellent points,
and they are also the feeding mechanism for trolls.

Therefore, please insert the identifier XXX in the Subject header of your
responses to our current troll.

That way, those who wish to hang on every word of the conversations with
Mxsmanic, and even add contributions are free to do so. Meanwhile, others
can have those parts of the conversations marked as read, but still
available, and still others can filter them out completely.

The result will be that newbies can see that innacurate and outrageous
statements, etc, are rebutted where contributors find it necessary to do so;
but that the conversations can no longer be hijacked.

I also strongly suspect that Montblack and others are correct--that less
emotion in response means less feeding for trolls.

Peter

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Post by FSGenesis
The enlightened response is to turn the other cheek, maintain the high
ground, and move on. He only has as much power as he is given and all
this reaction is like a puppet having his strings pulled. Want to make
him powerless? Ignore him.

Yea, but apparently, that isn't enough for the true assholes in these
newsgroups who really don't care about how much damage they do here with
their little temper tantrums.

Geoff OUT.
--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Bob Noel]

Post by Morgans
OK, let's do it this way.

No. That is NOT the way to handle a troll.

[Mike Young]

Post by Morgans
OK, let's do it this way.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mxsmanic. PAY ATTENTION ! ! !
YOU are served notice. Leave this newsgroup, or face possible action by
some people disrupting your website.
The choice is yours. Leave, or face the consequences.
End Notice.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There. He has been warned. Any choice he makes now, are his own
responsibility, and whatever actions others in this group take, are their
own choices as well.
Action against his website may be a low blow, but what he has done to these
newsgroups are a low blows, too.
If he does not take this opportunity to leave, he deserves anything he gets.
I'm sure I am not the only one that agrees with this.
--
Jim in NC

MX has been in my killfile for some months. It's folks like you who bring
him into my newsreader. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, the
outroar is sometimes quite entertaining, held at that skunk's distance.
Usually, that is, but not here. This is an ugly crowd, and you're possibly
the ugliest of the blaggards. He's not a suitable hobby. Grow some
self-respect, will ya?

In truth, what has he done? The only reason he's killfiled is because he
does have that knack of getting under your skin, almost compelling you to
respond. It's not so much to silence him, but to spare me the trouble of not
responding. He's beaten you, Jim in NC, and the only response you can think
of is vandalism and mob action. It seems we had this discussion before, too,
in a different context.

[Morgans]

Post by Mike Young
In truth, what has he done? The only reason he's killfiled is because he
does have that knack of getting under your skin, almost compelling you to
respond. It's not so much to silence him, but to spare me the trouble of
not responding. He's beaten you, Jim in NC, and the only response you can
think of is vandalism and mob action. It seems we had this discussion
before, too, in a different context.

Remember; I didn't suggest the idea. I was just putting out a statement to
warn him, before anyone took action.

I do not like the idea of messing with his site, but I still think he
deserves it. I'm sorry if it offends you; it offends me, too.

A famous quote, from Star, by Miles O'Brien:

"I don't hate you, Cardassian. I hate what you have made me become."

I'm not this kind of person, by nature. I'll contemplate this, and pray for
change of the person causing our strife. That may be the only thing that
has not been tried.

To the other posters that think ignoring is the way to go? Yes, but that
will never happen. Too little self control, I think, by too many people.

I'll go back to ignoring and not responding on the subject, now.

[Mike Young]

Post by Morgans
I'm not this kind of person, by nature. I'll contemplate this, and pray
for change of the person causing our strife. That may be the only thing
that has not been tried.

There is no strife, no crisis. All it is is a long bout of unflyable weather
after an enormously gentle and generous mid-winter.

Post by Morgans
To the other posters that think ignoring is the way to go? Yes, but that
will never happen. Too little self control, I think, by too many people.

:) Trust me on this, and give it a try. It's mildly entertaining to watch
the shadowboxing from a distance. I think I would be a little sad if there
was no one left to stir his pot. It's just not something to get involved in,
to get all worked up over. The trick is to not read his posts directly, but
just the responses.

[Marcel Kuijper]

Post by Sammy
Please do not act on this idea.
Exchanging insults on a newsgroup is one thing. Actually trying to do
damage to someone's business (whether it is Mx or not) is not on. Not
only is such action immoral but it's probably legally actionable in a
much more tangible way than a handful of insults.

I have to agree with Sammy.
MX is allowed to be an annoying little prick. It's Usenet, remember?
The only thing one can do, if he really gets out of hand, is to send an
e-mail to the abuse address of his provider.

There is nothing wrong with debating an on-topic item with him, and
we all know that this little bug thinks he knows everything (he reminds
me of someone else in the aviation community...someone much older),
but again there's nothing legal you can do against that.
He's here and, by the looks of it, he's here to stay for a while.
If everyone ignores him he just might go away, but even I can't turn
away from a harsh discussion when I know someone is wrong.
I've already shut him up once....I'll probably do it again in the near
future.

Please leave his website alone.
Don't make it personal, because you'll be worse than him.


Marcel

[tony roberts]

I believe that most of us possess a higher ethic.

Tony
--
***@hotmail.com
Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Post by Someone with a better idea
Go to Anthony's web site www.atkielski.com and book a tour or english lesson.
He will never be able to trust another booking he gets through his website,
unless he confirms the reservation and/or asks for a deposit.
This change, alone, will drive away at least a few potential 'real life' clients.
We have done to his website what he has done to our newsgroup. Made it worthless.

[Tom Peel]

Post by Someone with a better idea
Anthony Atkielski, AKA MXSMANIC, is a troll and a vandal. He has driven many
regular posters from these newsgroups.

Who the hell are you BTW and why should I care about your opinion.

T:

[Steve Foley]

Post by Someone with a better idea
Go to Anthony's web site www.atkielski.com and book a tour or english lesson.

I just tried going there. His blog link tries to download a free 'scanner'
program.

I suggest staying far away from this site.

[C J Campbell]

Post by Someone with a better idea
Anthony Atkielski, AKA MXSMANIC, is a troll and a vandal. He has driven many
regular posters from these newsgroups.

As Mae West famously said, "His mother should have thrown him away and kept
the stork."

However, I find the incessant posting *about* msxmanic every bit as annoying
as his posts.

"He is not only dull himself, he is the cause of dullness in others." -
Samuel Johnson

[Peter Dohm]

Post by C J Campbell

Post by Someone with a better idea
Anthony Atkielski, AKA MXSMANIC, is a troll and a vandal. He has driven many
regular posters from these newsgroups.

As Mae West famously said, "His mother should have thrown him away and kept
the stork."
However, I find the incessant posting *about* msxmanic every bit as annoying
as his posts.
"He is not only dull himself, he is the cause of dullness in others." -
Samuel Johnson
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Since this widely crossposted thread is still going, it appears that many in
the group do not fully understand what the XXX identifier means and what it
can really accomplish.

What it is NOT: It is not about the post which it answers.

What it IS: It is to identify the post, to which it is attached, as a rant.

What it DOES: It allows each poster to identify his own post as a rant,
so that anyone who wishes to ignore those parts of the threads can easily do
so--whether be automatically deleting or by marking as read. That sould be
enough to reduce, and gradually eliminate, the vitriol.

In other words, whenever a poster finds a question or statement worthy of an
answer, correction or agreement (regardless of who posted it--including
Mxsmanic); then post in the normal way.

OTOH, if a poster thinks it was a stupid [profane expletive] annoying post
by a [profane expletive] jerk, and desperately needs a [profane expletive]
rebuttal, then please include XXX in the subject line. That way, the rest
can filter it as they see fit; and threads will be virtually immune from
hijacking.

I hope this helps.

Peter

P.S.: I do hereby resolve to take my own advice in this matter, and also to
try to watch the Newsgroups header to minimize future cross posting.

[Jose]

Post by Peter Dohm
What it IS: It is to identify the post, to which it is attached, as a rant.

What about a calm, considered reply to an XXX rant? Label it XXX or
not? What if the rant is quoted?

Jose

[Peter Dohm]

Post by Jose

Post by Peter Dohm
What it IS: It is to identify the post, to which it is attached, as a rant.

What about a calm, considered reply to an XXX rant? Label it XXX or
not? What if the rant is quoted?
Jose
--

This is usenet--you have to use your own best judgement.

In a (nearly) perfect world, the XXX would stay on those posts related
primarily to the quarrel; but would be dropped if the thread wandered back
on-topic.

In order for the trolling to become trivial; we don't need to be perfect, or
even great. We just need to improve. Hopefully, enough of us will try.

Peter